Tuesday, September 28, 2010

Gaza One Year Later (December, 2009)

[and today, Al Aqsa intifada, ten years later]

Watertown, Massachusetts, December 6, 2009

(transcript I contributed for Democracy Now!)
 
Noam Chomsky: Well, let me begin with two caveats, pitfalls that I think we should be careful to avoid. It’s very important to have this meeting about Gaza, one of the most disgraceful situations in the world. But we should remember that it’s only in US and Israeli policy that Gaza is separated from the West Bank. They are unity. One unit, what’s left of Palestine: 22 percent of the original Mandate. Now, it’s very important for the US and Israel to separate the two and isolate them. For one thing, that means if there ever is some kind of political settlement, the West Bank will be deprived of any access to the outside world; it will be imprisoned. It won’t have the seaport. It’ll essentially be contained by two enemies. So, there is a strategic reason for the longstanding and intense effort to distinguish Gaza and the West Bank to keep them apart, to ban transport and also kind of ideologically to make them seem as if there were two different places. They aren’t, outside of US and Israeli ideology. And we should be careful not to—[it's important] to resist that, I think.


Another division that I think is important to resist is between US and Israel. We constantly talk rightly about Israeli crimes but that’s highly misleading, because they are US-Israeli crimes. There’s nothing that Israel does that goes beyond what the United States authorizes and in fact, directly supports with economic, diplomatic, military and also ideological support that is by framing issues. So, that, there’s this First Amendment exception that Nancy [Murray] mentioned.

So, these are US-Israeli crimes. If we talk about Israel, we should remember we’re talking about ourselves. It’s not like talking about crimes of China. These are very important to keep in mind.

Now, turning to Gaza and the West Bank, the separation of Gaza and the West Bank is part of a much more general policy: policy of fragmentation of the residue of Palestine, so they cannot hope to emerge as a viable entity. Separating Gaza from the West Bank is one part of it. Gaza, as Nancy pointed out, has been converted into a prison. The screws are being steadily tightened so that it becomes a maximum security prison, something like Guantanamo. It’s kind of a little odd on the side that there has been so much horror in the United States about Guantanamo. It’s not very different from the maximum security prisons that the United States runs. And we’re unique in the world, in the western world in having incarceration system of this kind.


So, it’s not just becoming a prison. It’s becoming something like a maximum security prison, which is basically a torture chamber. It’s under constant siege, very harsh and brutal siege. And siege is an act of war. Of all countries in the world, Israel surely is unusual in recognizing that. It twice launched the war in 1956 and 1967 on the grounds that its access to the outside world was very partially restricted. That was considered a crime. And total siege is, of course, a much greater crime.


So, it’s a major war crime that we’re carrying out. Supplies that you just heard are restricted so that you have bare survival. And there’s constant and systematic attacks on all the borders including the coast line to drive the population inland. On the borders, that takes away limited arable land. On the sea, what it is done is drive fishing fleet to a couple of kilometers from the shore, where fishing is impossible because of the conditions that Nancy described. After the destruction of the sewage systems, the power systems and other infrastructure, fish can’t survive and people can’t survive near the sea so that that destroys the fishing industry and it contains Gaza even more narrowly. Again, part of the policy of imprisonment. It sounds like sadism and it is. But it’s kind of rational sadism. It’s achieving well-understood and carefully planned end of US and Israeli policy.


There are also regular atrocities, special atrocities just to keep showing who’s boss. So, at the end of September, Israeli troops entered northern Gaza and kidnapped five children and brought them over to Israel and they disappeared into the Israeli prison system. Nobody knows too much about it. It includes secret prisons which occasionally surface. It’s estimated that roughly a thousand people are there, often for years, without any charge at all, just hidden away somewhere. So these kids probably joined that.


All of this happen with total impunity, happens regularly with complete impunity. That’s part of our ideological contribution to ensuring the crushing of Palestinians. That’s been going on for decades, in fact, in Lebanon and in the high seas. Israel has been hijacking boats on the way from Cyprus to Lebanon. Capturing or sometimes killing, passengers are taken to Israel, some keeping them in prisons, sometimes for decades, sometimes as hostages for eventual release, no charges. Often, we only barely know where they are by occasional surfacing of stories about secret prisons which aren’t published in the United States as they are in Europe and Israel.


And this is, again, in complete impunity because we permit it. We say we’re not going to talk about it so therefore, impunity. This is worth remembering when you read about what’s considered now one of the primary barriers to negotiations: the fate of an Israeli soldier Gilat Shalit, who was captured at the border on June 25th, 2006. Well, capture of a soldier of an attacking army is some sort of a crime, I suppose. It doesn’t rank very high among crimes. And against the background of constant, hijacking boats, kidnapping of civilians, killing of civilians on the high seas in Lebanon, it doesn’t rank very high. And the situation was made even more dramatic by the fact that one day before corporate Shalit was captured on the border, Israeli troops entered Gaza City, kidnapped two civilians, a doctor and his brother, spirited them across the border, and the two disappeared into the US-backed Israeli secret prison system. And nobody is talking about negotiations to get them out. They are Arabs, so they have no human existence. So, we don’t talk about them. And in fact, it was barely reported here because it’s insignificant. Shalit ought to be returned in prisoner exchange but that’s a toothpick on the mountain—but the one that we talk about.


And other crimes just go on regularly. Like a few days ago, you may have read that Israel banned the shipment of cooking gas into Gaza. Just an act of gratuitous cruelty. It means that—it is used for almost everything. So, that’s gone. The water system is under very severe attack. The International Committee of the Red Cross and the UN Environmental Protection Agency which work there estimate that, by now, only maybe 5 to 10 percent of the water, very limited water in the Strip, is usable.


Israel has constantly attacked the water system. The last invasion, US-backed Israeli invasion a year ago, destroyed around 30 kilometers of pipes and other equipment. Nothing is allowed back in to repair them. So, by now, as Nancy said, children are dying of diseases from poisoned water. And that is going to continue. The Red Cross estimates that if this continues, it would—at the best of circumstances, unless something is done about it—it may take centuries before this region becomes viable, before it’s possible for life to exist there.


Well, this is more rational savagery. A couple of months ago, I was out in California, giving a fund-raising talk for Middle East Children’s Alliance—it’s a marvelous organization. It’s been working in Gaza and other places for years, Barbara Lubin, its director, who had just come back from Gaza, a very heroic woman. And she described, she talked, as Nancy did, about what they found. One of the things they did, the delegation, was to go around the schools and just asked children, if you had one request, what could it be? And they thought they might direct their funding to that. And overwhelmingly, what children said in the schools was that what they would like is a drink of water in the morning. Well. That’s Gaza. And they did manage to find mechanics in the Strip who were able to construct small water purification devices and they’re trying now to fund enough water purification made with local materials, so that maybe children can have a drink of water in the morning. Their fondest wish. Well, that’s what we are doing. We’re doing. And we should remember that.


There’s a purpose. The purpose was explained right at the beginning of the occupation by Moshe Dayan, who was the Minister of Defense in charge of the occupied territories. In late 1967, he informed his colleagues that we should tell the Palestinians in the territories that we have nothing to offer them:“They will live like dogs. And those who will leave, will leave. We’ll see where this ends up.” And that’s the policy. It’s quite rational. “Live like dogs. And we’ll see what happens.” So, yes, sadism, but rational sadism.


And things are not dramatically different in the West Bank. Somewhat, but not much. First of all, everything turning the West Bank, just about everything that’s going on there is in a violation of international law. Gross violation. There’s a lot of talk here about expansion of the settlements. That’s completely diversionary. That has almost nothing to do with the issues. I mean, even if there was no further expansion of the settlements, they already destroyed the possibilities of viable Palestinian existence. Every one of them is illegal and known to be. There isn’t any controversy about it.


In late 1967, Israel was informed by its highest legal authorities—the main one, Theodor Meron, is a very respected international lawyer, a judge in the International Tribunals—he informed the government of what, in fact, is transparent that: “transferring population to occupied territories is in gross violation of the Geneva Conventions.” It’s the foundations of international humanitarian law. The Attorney General affirmed his conclusion. A couple of years ago, as you know, it was reaffirmed by the International Court of Justice. Moshe Dayan, who was in charge, recognized that. In late 1967, he said yes, it’s true, everything we’re doing is in violation of international law, but that’s often done, and so we’ll dismiss it. And he’s right. As long as the Godfather says it’s fine, you can dismiss it. So, yes, we’ll go on carrying out criminal acts. And we’ll debate some minor crime. You know, like debate of expanding settlements to allow natural growth. That’ll divert attention from the real issue, and we’ll be able to believe that our government is somehow acting humanly in an effort to achieve peace.


That, expansion of settlements, which is the big issue that we’re supposed to be excited about, even a ten-month alleged suspension which Hillary Clinton praised as “unprecedented generosity,”—all of that, even that little toothpick is a fraud. When Obama announced that he wanted termination of expansion of settlements, he was just quoting George W. Bush, who had said exactly the same thing. In fact it’s in the so-called Road Map, officially agreed framework for policy. When that’s ever mentioned, it’s rarely pointed out that Israel did accept the Road Map formally, but immediately added 14 reservations which completely eviscerated it.

So, it rejected the Road Map with US acquiescence, so therefore, as Dayan said, yes, fine, we’ll dismiss it. But that’s in the Road Map and Obama repeated it just as Bush did. But he repeated it with a usual wink. When asked, his spokesperson said that: US opposition to the expansion was purely symbolic. He would not go even as far as Bush No.1, who imposed very mild sanctions for expansion of settlements. But Obama made it clear that we’re not going to do it; these are just symbolic statements, so this minor diversionary operation can continue with effective US support.


Well, so it’s all illegal. We permit it, so therefore, it’s fine. It’s authorized. And it expands the principle of fragmentation, which is the core of US-Israeli strategic policy. So, separate Gaza from the West Bank. In the West Bank itself, the program is, for Israel, to take wherever is valuable and break up the rest in two unviable cantons. What’s valuable is, first of all, water resources. It’s a pretty arid region but there is an aquifer. There’s water that runs on the West Bank and Palestinian side of the international border. So, Israel has to annex that. And that’s also some of the most arable land and it’s also the nice suburbs. It’s the pleasant suburbs of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, kind of like Lexington where I live, relatively to Boston, a nice place to live. So that all happens to be in the West Bank, so we have to annex that.


And there’s the wall, as you know, snaking through the West Bank. It should properly be called an “annexation wall,” because the plan is to annex everything that is inside it, incorporated within Israel and that’s with a polite smile from the Godfather, so therefore that’s OK.


It’s interesting, in a commemoration of November 9th, the fall of Berlin Wall, Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor made an impassioned speech about how we have to bring down all the walls that divide us. But not the one cutting through the West Bank, which is about twice as high as the Berlin Wall and far longer and simply stealing land from defenseless people, thanks to the leader of the free world and us, because we’re allowing it.


So, take over everything that’s valuable, kind of near the border. Take over the Jordan Valley on the other side, it’s about a third of the West Bank. And Palestinians are being kept out of it by one means or another or driven out, that’s being settled. That imprisons what’s left. And what’s left is divided by carefully planned settlement salients which cut through to break it up into parts. So, there's one going east of what’s called Jerusalem, greatly expanded region, “Greater Jerusalem,” expands almost all the way to Jericho. And that essentially bisects the West Bank. There’s another to the north including the town of Ariel. Another one, north to that, goes to Kedumim. So it essentially breaks the region up. There’s technically contiguity where over—through the desert to the east, but that’s essentially unviable.

And what remains is broken up by hundreds of checkpoints which are there primarily for harassment. They move, so nobody knows where they exactly are going to be. But it means, for example, that if you want to visit your cousin two miles away, it may take you five hours to get there if you ever manage. And an ambulance may take two hours to get from one spot to a hospital a couple of miles away because it has to go through checkpoints and a patient has to be carried over, you know, a big barrier, put him on another one on the other side, and so on. These are essentially techniques for harassment. They have no security purpose, even a remote one. But they are perfectly rational to ensure that the population will “live like dogs and if they want to leave, that’s fine, they’ll leave.”


That’s aside from the actions in what’s called Jerusalem, a vastly expanded region around what used to be Jerusalem. There, the actions are doubly illegal. They are not only in violation of international law but they are also in violation of explicit Security Council resolutions barring any modification of the status of Jerusalem. Actually, the US signed and joined those resolutions back in the late 1960’s and for several years afterwards.


So, they are doubly illegal and they continue. I mean, that’s--there's what you read every day in the papers about new buildings, taking over Palestinian homes. And there’s now, just reported that last year Israel radically accelerated its withdrawal of resident status for inhabitants of Jerusalem for whom the courts decided that the center of their life was somewhere else. In that case, you can have your residents removed if you’re Palestinian. There’s no case on record that I know of of an Israeli who had citizenship reduced because the center of their life is in Los Angeles or in New York, for example. So, it’s just another racist law designed to rid the region of sort of “rubble and vermin” that are in the way.


We’re kind of familiar with that in American history. It resonates. That’s why we’re here, basically. Yes, that’s what we did in the conquest of national territory except that the US was much more violent and exterminated the indigenous population. But it’s a familiar pattern. And I suspect that it’s part of the reason for the residual sympathy for Israel’s activities, strikes kind of a cord in our own national history. Maybe one we don’t like to look at very much.


Expropriation continues steadily. By now, rough estimates, about a third of the West Bank has been expropriated, converted into state land. Yossi Sarid mentioned recently that this means Israel can continue settlement for a hundred years without expropriating anything any further. Well, that’s what continues.


Senator Kerry has an interesting stand on this. He’s very close to Obama. He’s become more or less as a foreign policy—a kind of emissary. He gave a most important speech[O1]  on the Obama administration’s policies; policies with a speech to the Brookings Institution a couple of months ago. Obama—that took a standard position. The party line is that the United States is an honest broker, trying desperately to bring peace to these two difficult antagonists. So he repeated that, that’s normal. But then he added that, for a long time, Israel has been seeking a legitimate partner for peace and it’s never had one. So it’s kind of devastated—who can we negotiate with? But Kerry said that, now, finally, Israel may have a legitimate partner for peace. [the audience pointed out a PA problem]....I was talking about Senator Kerry and his formulation of the Obama administration’s position. He gave a talk a few months ago, in which he said that the US has, of course, always been an honest broker seeking peace. That’s true by definition, you know. You don’t need any factual evidence relating to that. And now, Israel has always been desperately seeking a legitimate partner and finally may have had one. What was interesting is that he gave his evidence. His evidence was that during the US-Israeli attack on Gaza, which he didn’t, of course, described it that way, there were no protests on the West Bank. It was quiet. Of course, that’s the other half of Palestine but they didn’t do anything about it. And he explained why. He said the reason is that the US has established an army, mercenary army headed by US General Dayton, trained with the assistance of Jordan and Israel and the army is able to suppress any sign of resistance to what the US and Israel were doing in Gaza. So, this, things are really looking up. There’s a possibility that there might be a legitimate partner controlled by a paramilitary force that is under our command. I should mention that the Dayton Army is under State Department control, meaning at least some guns of weak restrictions on human rights and other conditionalities. But people in the West Bank say that is much more a savage force which is under CIA control, General intelligence, and that’s subject to nothing. That’s standard all over the world.


So, we have a military force so that we can keep the population quiet. There’s collaborationist elite. And living in Ramallah, it’s kind of like, Tel Aviv, Paris, New York—a lot of money flowing in from European Union, cultural life, people live pretty well. A few miles away in villages, life is entirely different. But this is the model. That perfect model of a neo-colonial society. That’s what the US is—and the US has a plenty of experience with this. This is the model that was crafted in the Philippines a century ago after the US conquered the Philippines to uplift them and Christianize them and so on. Although most of the noble motives were killing a couple of hundred thousand, there was a problem with what to do with them. So, a new model of control was developed, which was a real break from European imperial pattern and it’s pretty much what I described.


There’s a military force, the Philippine constabulary, but it has to have collaborationist elite. The nationalist movement was broken up by various devices, subversion, spreading rumors and all sorts of other things. And the population was put under a very tight surveillance and control, using the highest technology of the day. This is a century ago, so that meant telephone, radio and so on. And they had extremely tight surveillance of the population, knew where everybody was and so on. Those techniques were later developed and applied in other US domains in Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Nicaragua and so on. And they blew back to the United States very quickly. In fact, Woodrow Wilson applied them in the United States during the First World War. And we’re familiar with them today and even more so elsewhere like Britain.


In the West Bank, which is, as Nancy pointed out, an experimental region. The biometric controls are extremely sophisticated. So, there’s identification of every person by any kind of measure you can think of, all in their identity cards. Pretty soon, they’ll be in chips put into their brains or something. There’s a talk of extending these measures to Israel. There, there’s arousing protests, but in the West Bank, no protest. We just do that. So, this is a familiar technique and it works. The Philippines are still under that control. It’s 100 years. And that’s one of the reasons why the Philippines, the one American colony in Southeast Asia hasn’t joined the exciting economic development of the past 20 years. It’s not one of the East Asian tigers.


So, that’s a model which can be followed and which might work if we allow it. There are of course pretexts for all of this. Whatever a state does, there’s a pretext: security. Whatever you do, it’s in self-defense, kind of by definition. As usual, in this case, the pretext doesn’t stand up to a moment’s scrutiny. So, take, say, the annexation wall. I mean the reason that was offered is defense. Security. I mean if they were concerned with security, we know exactly what would be done. The wall would be built on the international border. It could be made impregnable, patrolled on both sides, a mile-high, totally secure. And that would give security. But, of course, if the purpose is what it actually is, namely to steal land and resources, then it can’t be built on the international border, where it might, furthermore, inconvenience [inaudible], instead of just inconveniencing and in fact, stealing from Palestinians.


And the same is true with the attack on Gaza. It’s almost universally accepted here, and in the West generally, that Israel had a right of self defense, and therefore was justified in attacking Gaza even though the attack was maybe disproportionate. That’s accepted, for example, by the Goldstone report. The Goldstone report is very valuable account of the atrocities that were carried out in the course of the war, but they are regarded as disproportionate actions in a legitimate war of self-defense.


OK, think about it for a minute. There is indeed the right of self-defense. Sure. Everyone agrees to that. But there is no right to self-defense by force. That has to be argued. And there is extensive international law and just common sense on this. You do not have the right to use force in self-defense unless you have exhausted peaceful means. Well, in this case, there definitely were peaceful means and the US and Israel knew it. And they chose not to, even attempt them because they wanted a war. They wanted to attack.

Peaceful means are obvious, again, not controversial. There had been a ceasefire initiated and proceeding in June, 2008. Israel concedes officially that during the ceasefire, there was not a single Hamas rocket fire. Sderot was quiet. The ceasefire was broken on November 4th, when using the cover of the US election, Israel invaded the Gaza Strip and killed half a dozen Hamas activists. And yeah, then rockets started firing. And in the following month, Hamas offered repeatedly to reinstate the ceasefire. Israel acknowledged it, the cabinet discussed it and decided not to accept it. OK. No right to use force in self-defense. It’s quite apart from conditions of international law, which I won’t go into, which is pretty explicit on this, are all violated.


So, the attack itself was a criminal act. The US and Israel are guilty of outright aggression. And if they fire one bullet, it was a crime. And if they carried out the atrocities as they did, it was a crime. And if you look, case by case, they’re just—there’s virtually no justification for the claim of security. And in fact that, I won’t go into the history here, but it goes back—at the very least until February, 1971. This has kind of been washed out from history because it doesn’t look nice for us.


But in February 1971, President Sadat of Egypt offered Israel a full peace treaty. Nothing for the Palestinians, just mentioned as refugees, on condition that Israel withdraw from the occupied territories. And all he cared about was withdrawal from the Egyptian territory. So, in effect, it was an offer of a full peace treaty with all the property guarantees and so on, in return for withdrawal from conquered Egyptian territory. One year later, Jordan made the same offer with regard to the West Bank, a full peace treaty if Israel withdraws from the West Bank.


Well, at that point, security problem was over, if Israel wanted it to be over. If Israel had accepted those peace treaties, the major Arab state, Egypt, would be out of the conflict. And Jordan, the minor Arab state on the southern border, would be out of the conflict. OK. End of security problems. There was no Palestinian security problems to speak of at the time. You know, if such [inaudible] could have easily been controlled. But Israel made a decision, a fateful decision to choose expansion over security. At that time, expansion was into northeastern Sinai, where they were planning to build a huge city Yamit and a lot of settlements.


The real question is: what’s the Godfather going to say? Well, there was a debate in Washington. It was internal controversy. Henry Kissinger won out. His position, as he says, was what he calls “stalemate”: we should have no negotiations. Just force. And so, Israel was able to reject the peace offer. I won’t go into the consequences but it meant an awful world, a lot of suffering and constant security problems.

And if you look, from then through now, it’s pretty much the same. I mean Israel could have security right now. The Arab League has long endorsed the international consensus on a two-state settlement. In fact, they initiated it. The major Arab states in January 1976, when they introduced a resolution at the Security Council, calling for a full peace treaty on the international border. It was vetoed by the United States. And US vetoes are double vetoe. It doesn’t happen and it’s out of history. So we don’t talk about that.


So, it continues. The Arab states have reiterated in a more developed form of peace agreement, a full peace agreement. The organization of Islamic states—they should include Iran—has accepted it. Hamas accepted it. In fact, anybody relevant accepted it with exception of the United States and Israel. So, yes, there are real security problems but not justifiable ones.


Among all the reports—there were a number of reports that came out of Gaza, the Goldstone report, an extensive one. Amnesty International published several, Human Rights Watch, they are very revealing. In my opinion, the most revealing of all of them is—at least the most important for us—is Amnesty International report, which really broke new ground for human rights reports. It went through the weaponry that had been used in the assault against Gaza. A lot of high-tech, destructive, murderous weaponry. It traced it to its source, which is mostly back to us. And it called for an arms embargo. Amnesty international called for an arms embargo on both sides, which means essentially on Israel. That’s talking to us. That’s saying we ought to join in an arms embargo and stop sending arms in violation of international law and indeed in violation of US law. We should stop violating US law and sending arms to a country that’s using them for aggression and violence and destruction.


Well, you know, that’s a policy that Americans ought to follow. Let’s follow US law. Let’s try that for change. And stop sending arms to Israel. Well, I think adhering to the Amnesty international’s plea would make a lot of sense. There have been occasional reports from Human Rights Watch and others saying, you know, some arms shouldn’t be sent to a country that has used, that is carrying out regular tortures and so on. But this is the first call that I know of by a human rights group for a total arms embargo to an aggressive and violent state. 

And the call is directed to us. We are the one providing the overwhelming bulk of the arm and continuing to do it. And I think we should listen to the call. That also suggests something about tactics. If we want to act in ways which is going to change policy, not just to make us feel good but change policy, the tactic should be directed to Washington. Unless Washington changes its position, there isn’t going to be any peaceful settlement.


And there are good, historical analogies that we can use to sharpen up or thinking about this. It’s pretty common to make analogies between Israel and South Africa. Most of those analogies are pretty dubious. There are some similarities but enormous differences. One fundamental difference is that the white nationalists in South Africa needed the black population. That was the source of their labor and sustenance, so they didn’t want them to live like dogs and flee the country. They wanted them to stay there and be a subordinate population. That’s quite different from the case of Israel; they don’t want the Palestinians. They want them out away somewhere. Like the US attitude toward the indigenous population here: “Just either die or disappear.” That’s a serious disanalogy. But there are some—even though the analogies are weak, we can learn something from history. And histories are worth thinking about.


By the early 1960s, South Africa was becoming a pariah state. There was a talk of sanctions, and boycotts but they hadn’t been implemented yet. There were negative votes in the United Nations, there were sharp attacks. South Africans were aware of it. They did pretty much the kind of things that Israel is doing today.

South Africa was reacting at that time very much the way that Israel is doing now: the whole world hates us. You know, they’re just racist. They don’t understand how wonderful we are. We have to have better information and educational campaigns to explain to them how what we’re doing is exactly right and to the benefit of the black population and so on. They were doing all those things but they knew pretty well that they were not going to work. Just as Israel ought to understand that comparable effort is not going to work. They are going to continue being--turning into a pariah state. But South African foreign minister, about fifty years ago, spoke to the US ambassador and he said something quite perceptive and relevant. He told the US ambassador that yes, overwhelmingly they’re voting against us in the United Nations and so on. But in the United Nations, there is only one vote: yours. And as long as you’re backing us, it doesn’t matter what the rest of the world says. That’s a pretty accurate perception. That’s what it means to have overwhelming global dominance of a kind that has never existed in history. And he was right. And if you look at the history what followed, it demonstrated it.

Through the 60s and 70s, South Africa became more and more a pariah nation. The United States and Britain kept supporting it. By 1980 or so, boycott, sanctions and so on were beginning; US corporations were beginning to refuse to invest; Congress began passing legislation. But the US continued to violate. The Reagan administration violated congressional legislation and overwhelming global opinion to continue supporting South African apartheid. And that’s one of the most violent and brutal periods.


In the 1980s with US support, South Africa was able to go kill an estimated a million and a half people and caused about $60 billion of damage just in neighboring countries, putting aside what it was doing inside South Africa with constant US support, went on through the 1980s.


In 1988, at that time, you couldn’t find anybody defending apartheid. You know, mayors, corporations, Congress, whatever. In 1988, the US formally identified the African National Congress, Mandela’s ANC, as one of “the more notorious terrorist groups in the world.” That was in 1988. You’ll be pleased to know, if you don’t already, that Mandela was taken off the terrorist list a couple of months ago. So we know how long we have to be terrified of him. Around 1989, for reasons which are not entirely known—we don’t have internal documents for that period—US policy shifted. And it moved towards ending apartheid and instituting a regime which sort of maintains the social and economical structure of the apartheid regime, but without total exclusion of the blacks. So, if you go to Cape Town or Johannesburg, you can see black faces in limousines. Even though for—and other signs of improvement, that was a major achievement getting rid of apartheid. But the fundamental structure was maintained. However, apartheid wad ended. Mandela was let out of prison, he was given a couple years of instruction and democracy and freedom and so on. And then he was allowed to appear. And the US, their Godfather changed its position and it ended. If you go back to 1988, it looked like one of the worst periods in South African history. People were desperate, giving up.


And that has happened elsewhere. So, South African minister was correct. And it happens in other cases too. I have no time to go through them but there are other cases where just a slight shift in US policy terminated violent, murderous aggression, in fact, near genocidal aggression. And it could happen in this case too. But something is going to have to press it and that’s going to have to come from inside. It’s not going to come from the rest of the world. And I think that is lessons we ought to keep in mind when we think about, first of all, our own responsibilities and also the kinds of tactical moves that would be appropriate. Thanks.


7 comments:

Anonymous said...

Mariko, thanks for your work in transcribing Chomsky and supporting Palestinians.

terrette, 鹿児島

Mariko, SAKURAI said...

thanks a lot.

Anonymous said...

dating women pics http://loveepicentre.com/testimonials/ jewish dating service online
membership dating site [url=http://loveepicentre.com/]great online dating profile samples[/url] steven seagal dating
scott sherwood pennsylvania dating [url=http://loveepicentre.com]purchase and create a dating site[/url] japan tokyo dating tokyo girls [url=http://loveepicentre.com/user/Hoku1/]Hoku1[/url] american asian dating

ninest123 said...

longchamp outlet, ralph lauren pas cher, louboutin pas cher, ray ban sunglasses, nike roshe run, oakley sunglasses, kate spade outlet, louis vuitton, christian louboutin outlet, ugg boots, air jordan pas cher, oakley sunglasses, louboutin shoes, cheap oakley sunglasses, oakley sunglasses, chanel handbags, replica watches, louis vuitton outlet, burberry, nike outlet, louis vuitton outlet, tiffany jewelry, ray ban sunglasses, prada outlet, tory burch outlet, louboutin, ugg boots, louboutin outlet, gucci outlet, air max, oakley sunglasses, polo ralph lauren outlet, prada handbags, nike free, jordan shoes, sac longchamp, polo ralph lauren outlet, longchamp outlet, tiffany and co, longchamp, longchamp pas cher, replica watches, nike free, nike air max, ray ban sunglasses, michael kors, nike air max, uggs on sale, louis vuitton, louis vuitton

ninest123 said...

burberry outlet online, nike air max, replica handbags, michael kors outlet, true religion jeans, vanessa bruno, michael kors, burberry, ugg boots, air force, ray ban uk, michael kors outlet, ralph lauren uk, coach purses, abercrombie and fitch, nike free run uk, sac guess, nike air max, michael kors, lululemon, north face, hollister, oakley pas cher, tn pas cher, converse pas cher, michael kors, hollister pas cher, coach outlet, nike blazer, new balance pas cher, hogan, michael kors, ray ban pas cher, coach outlet, nike roshe, kate spade handbags, ugg boots, nike air max, michael kors outlet, north face, michael kors outlet, timberland, vans pas cher, lacoste pas cher, true religion jeans, true religion outlet, mulberry, michael kors outlet, true religion jeans, hermes

ninest123 said...

louboutin, ralph lauren, nike huarache, asics running shoes, babyliss, valentino shoes, instyler, new balance, soccer jerseys, nfl jerseys, mont blanc, iphone cases, mac cosmetics, nike air max, herve leger, timberland boots, gucci, insanity workout, nike air max, converse outlet, ray ban, converse, celine handbags, hollister, vans shoes, north face outlet, lancel, lululemon, birkin bag, nike trainers, p90x workout, giuseppe zanotti, chi flat iron, abercrombie and fitch, jimmy choo shoes, nike roshe, hollister, longchamp, baseball bats, soccer shoes, beats by dre, north face outlet, bottega veneta, hollister, vans, wedding dresses, ferragamo shoes, reebok shoes, ghd, mcm handbags, oakley

ninest123 said...

pandora charms, moncler, moncler, replica watches, moncler, ugg,ugg australia,ugg italia, karen millen, barbour, sac louis vuitton pas cher, coach outlet, juicy couture outlet, ugg,uggs,uggs canada, moncler, pandora jewelry, swarovski crystal, canada goose, thomas sabo, moncler, louis vuitton, barbour jackets, pandora charms, canada goose uk, canada goose, hollister, supra shoes, canada goose, ugg pas cher, pandora jewelry, canada goose outlet, doudoune canada goose, montre pas cher, juicy couture outlet, wedding dresses, ugg boots uk, swarovski, moncler outlet, canada goose outlet, bottes ugg, louis vuitton, marc jacobs, toms shoes, moncler, canada goose, links of london, louis vuitton, moncler, louis vuitton